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Thursday, August 14, 2008


President Bush, after reeling from the events of the last few days in Georgia, has finally rallied himself into some kind of response. All too predictably, however, it is one that simply adds more fuel to what could become a rapidly accelerating fire.

Bush has reacted with two responses that could lead to direct confrontation between American and Russian regular troops. First, he has demanded that all Russian troops leave Georgia and, second, he has sent American troops to Georgia to ‘aid the humanitarian effort’. Bush didn’t make clear if ‘all Russian troops leave Georgia’ included South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the regions the Russians and the Georgians are in dispute over and which was the initial cause of the present conflict, or if Bush would be satisfied if they simply withdrew to their bases of which some are in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and which part of the peace deal brokered by French President Sarkozy allowed for, also is unclear.

Either way, the end result is that armed American troops will be in Georgia – and so will Russian troops.

The Bush response has been slow in coming which clearly indicates that they did not see this crisis developing in the way it did. However, it is highly unlikely that the Georgia government would have taken it upon themselves to aggressively attempt to assert their authority in the disputed regions without he support or go-ahead from the US who have many military advisors in the Georgian military and who would have been in constant communication with the Defence Department at the Pentagon as the Georgians developed their plans to reach into South Ossetia. The US, as I have previously said, has completely misjudged the Russian reaction to Georgia’s moves.

In an effort to recover the political ground Bush lost as the world realised that Bush hadn’t got a backup plan in the event of Georgia’s misadventures going pear-shaped, Bush has gone overboard in ensuring that he is being seen to be the strongman in this crisis. Bush has promised not just humanitarian aid to cater for the immediate crisis but also massive ongoing aid to ensure that Georgia is fully supported by the US in the future. In short, there is likely to be a massive US military presence in Georgia for some time to come.

How Russia will view this development right on their doorstep is another matter.


It seems that in the rush to get a peace deal going, the French President Nicolas Sarkozy, has left a loop hole open in the agreement whereby Russian troops can enter Georgia as part of any additional security measures Russia sees fit. This puts the ball firmly back in President Bush’s court who has insisted that Russia live up to their part of the agreement – the Russians will no doubt insist upon it.


petkov said...

Wrong. Bush knows EXACTLY what he wants and what he is doing. The whole thing was decided from the start: how and when the US will respond, what it will say and, how Russia will be presented as the bad guy. This was a pretty good move by the US; Russia was doomed if they did, doomed if they didnt. The whole thing has several aims: the make the Russia the bad guy, the get Georgia into NATO the start up another front to study Russia's military response. Bush wants to add fuel to the fire by sending US troops into Georgia, he is mad enough to wants even BIGGER shit happening if he can get it.

michael said...

The assault on S.Ossetia was timed for the eve of the Olympics.

Why would Georgians want to discomfit the Chinese ?

They wouldn't.

Would they want the world to know about their `liberation struggle` or liberation struggle against their bear like oppressive neigbour to the north ?

They would.

So why do it just when the opening ceremony was to get under way with the whole world watching only that ?

Makes no sense.

But it does when you look at Israel's need to tie down China, the Chinese being impeccable hosts to the rest of the world at this time could hardly stop being that and respond to Iran being attacked by Israel which Israel would have, and was poised to, should Russia likewise be preoccupied, but differently - a week later - in still repelling the Georgian assault on Ossetian innocents.

Two shoes had to fall into place; the Chinese, that was a given. The Russian did not, as contrary to expectation they turned the situation around in 24 hrs and the Israeli `advisors` caught flatfooted were still in the country, as they had thought they would have had time to depart the scene of their betrayal in a orderly fashion had the Russians been bogged down in their response.

Bush is, propped up on the stage by his handlers, miming his part while the real business of what it was all about goes on behind the curtain.

Whether he gives aid or not to Georgia matters not at all as Russia's power relative to Georgia's just in conventional terms remains, in any case, 50 times greater. So, all that Bush would be doing is flailing about like a scare crow giving the appearance of not being totally impotent, which he actually is.

Damian Lataan said...

Nonsense Petkov, in the light of the west’s almighty stuff up as they rushed to get a peace agreement signed (courtesy of Sarkozy) the series of events that has culminated in the situation that the US now finds itself in demonstrates that Bush hasn’t got a clue about what’s going on.

But what has really been demonstrated here is how the mainstream media propaganda machine have failed miserably to push the lies of what really happened in Georgia, particularly with regard to what the Georgians have been up to in South Ossetia. Bush has been exposed for the liar that he has always been.

And, of course, you’re right about Bush, together with his warmongering neocon cohorts, being mad enough to push it even further to the brink.

The quicker the American people affect ‘regime change’ in November the better for America and the rest of the world.

orana gelar said...

Michael's theory is wrong. It is founded on incorrect assumptions.

First, there's the false premiss that "The assault on S.Ossetia was timed for the eve of the Olympics."

In fact, Georgian action in South Ossetia commenced at least a week prior to the Olympic Games.

Second, the assumption that a conflict during the Olympic Games would escape the attention of "the world" (i.e. that all eyes are on the Games).

In fact, whilst the media attention to the Olympic Games does reduce available column inches, airtime, etc dedicated to "World News" that results in the most salient items being given greater focus (i.e. such items take up most, if not all of the reduced space/time allocated to "World News," thus making it more salient than it would otherwise have been.

michael said...

During the night of August 7, coinciding with the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, Georgia's president Saakashvili ordered an all-out military attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia.

michel chossudovsky

Your 2nd point, orana, is no point at all, just too strained to make any sense; wordy argumentative demented stuff, only designed to derail.

Just typical zionist misdirection, latch onto a trivial irrelevancy whenever the core has merit.

orana gelar said...

Is simply quoting "michel chossudovsky" meant to be convincing, Michael?

Saakashvili did order an all-out military attack on 7 August, however he'd ordered initial Georgian actions in South Ossetia earlier and these did actually commence at least a week prior to the Olympic Games [1].

Substantial numbers of South Ossetians had started to evacuate into Russia by 3 August [2].

It is true that I could have made my second point more clearly. Please accept my apology for causing any confusion.

My point is that whilst coverage of the Games means coverage of fewer "World News" items, Georgian propaganda about the situation was always likely (and has been proved to be) more salient because it dominates non-Games-related "World News."

It has been first item after Olympics coverage in/on every MSM outlet I've seen/heard this past week.

I assure you I'm no Zionist, Michael.

Damian knows the truth.

orana gelar said...

Here's an alternative theory for you to consider Michael:

Mikhail Saakashvili and his ministers/conspirators actually wanted to draw sympathetic attention from the Western world.

The 'official' and so-called 'defensive' Georgian attack on Tskhinvali was timed to coincide with the Games to try and tap the sympathetic support of Westerners (who'd be enjoying the Olympic 'spirit' etc).

Mikhail Saakashvili and his mob would be pleased to have populations in the West, particularly Americans, perceiving Georgia in much the same light as they do Israel.

In other words, Mikhail Saakashvili is trying to portray Georgia as something like an Israel MkII. Instead of the (imagined and overhyped) 'existential threat' said to be posed by 'Islamofascist' Arabs and/or Iranians, he evokes an (imagined and overhyped) 'existential' threat said to be posed by 'Godless Commie/Corrupt' Russians.

I think Mikhail Saakashvili was banking on becoming the 'little buddy' to Uncle Sam. He's been looking at USrael and saying to himself: "Let's get that kind of deal for Georgia."

orana gelar said...

Georgians shelled the South Ossetian villages of Sarabuki (at 05:00) and Andisi (at 08:00) on 29 July; which is more than a week before the Games.

The Georgians then continued to try and provoke a response by conducting “a sniper war” using some of the 40 rifles from Ukraine and 120 rifles from the US.

Then Mikhail Saakashvili made sure the world would focus on the deployment of Russian peacekeepers by making his announcement of 7 August. He gambled he could use the Olympic Games to further his political interests.

michael said...

Michel chossudovsky has it right on facts, and has been around a very long time, though his views arising are not those i generally agree with. I did not jab my finger into the `C` section of the city phone book and come up with the name.

The points you make about actions of the previous week end are, as it says, shoot outs and low level conflict, which do not compare with the 1500+ dead reported over night from the Georgian assault on the eve of the Olympics. It is this latter which makes it to the well known news outlets, and is the point. But, thanks for drawing my attention to these earlier probing skirmishes nonetheless.

Had it been a non Games year the coverage would have been much greater, hence the assault is less likely to have happened.
What the Western world thinks of Israel is becoming belatedly clear minded as Israel hasn't figured out how to control the new media. Under continuing Israeli control Georgia might indeed achieve similar coveted status.

You mention Mikhail Saakashvili four times - and with conspirators/mob, portraying him as a independent actor trying to make decisions advantaging his beleagured li'l country, but unfortunately, Orana, Mikhail Saakashvili has very conveniently come to my rescue in a timely fashion (for which i thank him most profusely) and i don't have to now sound as if i'm a loony, for he himself is reported as saying; "We have two Israeli cabinet ministers, one deals with war [Defense Minister David Kezerashvili], and the other with negotiations [State Minister for Territorial Integration Temur Yakobashvili], and that is the Israeli involvement here: Both war and peace are in the hands of Israeli Jews." Haaretz 14/8.

As there is no such thing as a former Israeli, there was therefore close and intimate liason with the Israeli Minister of Defense all along. Can i provide a reference here ? Yes, it's called thinking for oneself.

Furthermore, after the decision to make the assault on the eve of the Games was made in this way, it was then that your wily Mikhail Saakashvili was informed and was asked to go on TV and, in the language of protocol, announcing the defensive actions taken by Georgian forces. How do i know this ? A lot easier than thinking, like, a no brainer, it's inherent in his indelible contribution to the History of the 21st Century, when, as he had just said, `Both war and peace are in the hands of Israeli Jews`.

Orana, you curiously mention USrael, the hybrid form, and it's sobering to recall Ariel Sharon shouting at Shimon Peres, "Every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." 3 Oct 01, Israel Army Radio.

Would you be saying that you don't read well known Israeli online news sources, which explains your seeming unawareness of the fluent in Hebrew background of the two principal Georgian cabinet ministers, but you are aware of obscure sources like and ?

Forgive me Orana, but i have no reason to modify my characterization of you as Zionist.

Damian knows the truth, so what truth is it that he knows about you ?

orana gelar said...


You appear to make many poorly founded assumptions.

You assume, with no sound basis, that I was not aware of Kezerashvili and Yakobashvili.

In fact, I am well aware of those Georgians and their continuing Israeli connection.

You assume, on a poor foundation, that had it been a non Games year "the coverage would have been much greater."

I contest that the Olympic background makes the conflict much more salient that it would otherwise have been.

Damian knows who I am, knows my body of work, and he knows my views on the Zionist crimes against the Palestians.

I'm simply not a Zionist; your assumption is very wrong.

BTW as you've resorted to make such assumptions and throw insults so quickly, I'm drawn (as a psychologist) to wonder what caused the character flaw in you that makes that so?

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain why you turned nasty as soon as your l'il theory was challenged.

Did your mother not listen to you when you were a toddler or something?

Damian Lataan said...

G’day Michael and Orana,

There’s a good healthy debate going on between you two which is just the sort of stuff I have strived to encourage – admittedly, with limited success.

Michael, I do know that Orana is certainly not a Zionist and I also know that you mean well with your stance so I wonder if somewhere along the line there has been some kind of misunderstanding between you two. I do hope that’s all it is because, as I say, you are both fielding good arguments.

The detaily chronology is important but so too is the bigger picture and both must be seen in conjunction with each other if one is to arrive at an objective analysis of what has and is happening.

Regards to both

orana gelar said...

Yes, you're quite correct Damian. Thanks. We should indeed begin our conversation again.

Hello, Michael, I'm not a Zionist and I've an alternative theory to yours, which I thought you might like to consider.

I see my perspective as being somewhat aligned with Damian's.

Damian, in you second to most recent post, you'd helpfully pointed to the propaganda the neocons are pumping out now. I think we both see the 'frame' represented in the use of Israel-analogy when Kristol "invokes the memory of brave little Georgia’s brave stand against ‘Soviet rule’"?

I think we'd be in agreement that for some time prior to 7 August the Georgian regime had in place its plan to attack the South Ossetians.

Much like the Israeli government uses control of essential goods and services to collectively punish the Palestinians, the Saakashvili regime has been facilitating sabotage of the Edis-Tskhinval water pipeline. The did so several times in July. It was all part of the provocation routine.

I think people around the world should condemn the Georgians for their actions. Instead, unthinking 'sheople' around the world swallow MSM reports, and today many (if not most) MSM outlets are acting as conduits for pro-Georgian propaganda.

orana gelar said...

Apologies for the several typos in my comments on this thread to date.

Unfortunately, sometimes when tapping out a comment quickly (and usually when tired at the end of a long day) I'll inadvertently drop a 'r' from 'your' and a 'y' from 'they' (as I did in my last comment) and that kind of thing.

I think I'd most unfortunately confused Michael by dropping some punctuation and forgetting to close a bracket when I first attempted to explain how the Olympic background actually makes the news from/on Georgia all the more salient. There's a 'contrast' effect at play, plus the Georgian 'news' (aka propaganda) has tended to dominate the non-Games related "World News."

It's a shame that Michael saw those few typos as turning my explanation into "wordy argumentative demented stuff, only designed to derail." I did not intend to derail any focus on Georgia's role in causing the conflict. Indeed, I'd hoped to show how calculating the Georgians had been.

Damian Lataan said...

Orana, I’m sure, given that you have provided an explanation as to how the misunderstanding may have arisen, that Michael will be able to realign his argument to suit the intent and meaning of your argument.

As well as reviewing and analysing the historical events, it might be interesting to have a glimpse at to where all this may be heading both in the short term and the long term. While, as an historian, one isn’t usually given to making predictions there is some use in such an exercise inasmuch that you can often get a grasp on how well you are able to get a handle on what is going on in the world. If your prediction turns out to be right then your analysis has been about right. On the other hand, if you turn out to be wrong, you give yourself an opportunity to analyse where you went wrong in formulating ideas of how things transpired. Then, of course, there is always the unexpected out of left field.

michael said...

Orana, i could respond point by point, that you now know since you introduce matters extraneous by way of reply as a substitute for concise head to head answers i give in response to earlier matters.

You are jewish, and you argue as schooled when dealing with the remaining 99.8% of humanity as i've seen the pattern a legion of times.

But, hey! Us goys are every bit as sharp as you are. Every bit.

Problem is, your rabbi inflicted job is to reduce us to permanent cattle status fit for kosher culling ad lib, and sadly also have us more than happy to offer up our throats for the allegedly unique and unimaginable crimes also allegedly committed by our forebears about which historians now rot in German jails lest the unassailable truth become known to all who have a mind of their own.

orana gelar said...

Michael, you're saying stuff that is just ridiculous now. I'm not a Jew and you have absolutely no basis for assuming something like that.

Damian, I'm sorry but it looks like I'll have to leave you for now because I really couldn't be bothered with some fool's tantrums.

Damian Lataan said...

Not a problem Orana. Catch up again soon.

Damian Lataan said...

I remind readers directed here from Webdiary of Geoff Pahoff's real feelings towards the old and infirm.

"I celebrated wildly when that filthy bag of puss [sic], ‘the old blind wheel-chair bound spiritual leader’ finally kissed what was left of his miserable fanny and did the world the enormous favour, albeit somewhat forced, of departing from it for all eternity. Thereby correcting a major anomaly in the order of things by being born in the first place. Or not drowned slowly at the first opportunity. The slimy ignorant lying slice of toxic shit."

Charming little racist.

michael said...

They only seem racist. We actually mistake religion engendered hatred (only judaism is like that) for racism, as the killer of jewish Leon Klinghoffer, Abul Abbas, was allowed into Gaza a number of times in later years which means he was deep undercover for Israel when the Achille Lauro was hijacked.

Of course, Israel routinely murders Palestinians including high profile people like the wheel chair bound blind Sheikh Ahmed Yassin alluded to, not forgetting the poisoning of Yassar Arafat.

But very occasionally they allow one of their own to be murdered by a Palestinian, who is really working for them, if it is likely to reverse the peace process which might be at critical point.

Only a week before the Achille Lauro hijacking Israel had in error bombed a neighbourhood of a Tunis suburb killing 68 local innocents in the attempt at killing high level PLO people who had sought refuge there after Lebanon in 1982. This didn't make the Israelis look good, so they quickly arranged for the hijacking of the cruise ship which gave the media talking heads the opportunity of going on endlessly about Leon Klinghoffer having been shot and then thrown over the side by Palestinian terrorists, who in this instance were really working for Israel.